Why We Don’t Trust Each Other Anymore with Claude Steele

About this episode

Why does it feel so hard to talk to people who see the world differently than we do? In this episode, we sit down with renowned social psychologist Claude Steele, author of Churn: The Tension That Divides Us and How to Overcome It, to examine the hidden psychological tension that shows up whenever identity, race, politics, or difference enters the room. Steele calls it “churn,” the mental strain of wondering how other people see us, whether we’ll be stereotyped, whether we’ll say the wrong thing, or whether a mistake will become a judgment about who we are. That strain is everywhere right now. It shows up in debates over wokeness, partisan politics, race, culture, workplaces, classrooms, and even ordinary conversations. And as trust declines, we become more guarded, more suspicious, and more likely to retreat toward people who already think like us. But Steele argues that the answer may be simpler than we think. We talk about why prejudice is only part of the problem, why both sides of a divide can experience the same underlying anxiety, how political and cultural conflict can intensify it, and why trust, curiosity, and genuine interest in other people can change the way we r