Sue Gordon: Trump’s Approach to Intel is “Breathtakingly Reckless"

About this episode

Sue Gordon is indefatigable. Nicolle calls her a “unicorn”: a rare case of somebody who served with honor and integrity as the Principal Deputy Director of National Intelligence — and who Donald Trump, at least for a while, kept around. “I am for America,” Gordon says, declaring that as her North Star. Throughout her decorated career in intelligence, Gordon has always understood that telling the truth is imperative in keeping the president informed and the nation safe. She talks bluntly about the administration putting innocent people in harm’s way in Iran, calls Jay Clayton’s refusal to state that Joe Biden won the 2020 election during his confirmation hearing “100% disqualifying” and points to Trump being “more cruel” in his second term. She does not believe, however, that the president cannot be reasoned with. Taking a beat, she says: “Maybe I need to call him.” A Note to Listeners: As the 2026 midterm elections heat up, MS NOW is headed to the Lone Star State. Join more than a dozen of your favorite hosts - including Rachel Maddow, Lawrence O'Donnell, Jen Psaki, Michael Steele, Ali Velshi and more - in Arlington, Texas on September 26 for a day of community and conversation a