Julia Curlee: “This is my Country, Too.”

About this episode

Julia Curlee brings stories of a remarkable career, recounting her time as a CIA analyst and as an intelligence briefer for Vice President Mike Pence. She begins, however, by talking about the most “unremarkable” aspects of her tenure: up until she was fired in 2025 by the Trump administration for being transgender, Curlee recalls a tolerant government and a good working relationship with Pence. The former Vice President “used the intelligence community the way it was designed,” she tells Nicolle, as opposed to some current intelligence personnel who concern themselves only with “providing the president with information that he wants to hear.” She points to this shift as one of many examples of how the second Trump term is exponentially more dangerous than the first, addressing the United States’ declining international reputation amidst the war in Iran and the ways in which the government uses internal division as a tool to distract from their failure to improve the lives of Americans. And still, she refuses to stand down in the fight to preserve democracy: “This is my country, too.” Here is Julia’s piece in The Atlantic: The Wrong Kind of American A Note to Listeners: As the 2